Fantasy, NBA - Written by daniel80111 on Tuesday, June 9, 2009 1:10 - 33 Comments

Not So PERfect

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Tell us whether this article has "trimmed your gut," and brought some objectivity to your sports-view, or if the flab of subjectivity is still weighing you down.
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mauer with power“At shooting guard, 6′6″ out of Lower Merion High School, Kobe Bryant!” When you hear that introduction, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?  That 81 point game against the Toronto Raptors?  The impossible shot he hit against the Portland Trailblazers? The fact that he’s about to win his 4th NBA Championship?  Or if you’re not a fan, how he helped run Shaq out of town and how he threw the entire team under the bus after the 2006-2007 season?  Well, whatever you think about him, one thing fans rarely question is that Kobe Bryant is the best player in the NBA. Or is he?

Just as was true for baseball until a short time ago, it has always been difficult to accurately measure a basketball player’s true performance on the court.  In baseball, a man named Bill James revolutionized the way fans looked at a player’s true effectiveness through sabermetrics.  And now, a man named John Hollinger has done the same thing for basketball, forever changing how fans will view the game’s traditional statistics.  Combining these traditional statistics, which you see in every box score, with underlying statistics that aren’t as highly publicized, Hollinger discovered his groundbreaking statistic, which he dubbed “PER” -  Player Efficiency Rating. This is how Hollinger described his new system:

“PER strives to measure a player’s per-minute performance, while adjusting for pace.  A league-average PER is always 15.00, which permits comparisons of player performance across seasons.  PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team’s pace. In the end, one number sums up the players’ statistical accomplishments for that season.”

With that in mind, let’s take a look at Kobe’s PER.  This season, he posted a PER of 24.46, ranking him 6th in the NBA.  Lebron James posted the highest PER with a 31.76, followed by Dwyane Wade at 30.46, and Chris Paul rounding out the top three at 30.04. I know what you’re thinking: Kobe is older now and Phil Jackson rested him a bit more than in previous seasons.  So maybe we should look at the highest PER Kobe has posted in a single season, right?  Kobe’s highest PER in a single season was 28.11 in the 2005-2006 season.  At this point, it’s not a stretch to say that Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, and Chris Paul all three had better seasons this year (according to statistics) than Kobe Bryant is likely to ever have in his career… including that season with the 81 point game.  In fact, Lebron has already surpassed Kobe’s career high PER of 28.11 in three of his five seasons, and Chris Paul has posted the highest PER ever for a point guard in his first four years – a ranking that pushes him past even the beloved Magic Johnson.

One argument in Kobe’s favor is that he does have three championships, and is about to collect a fourth.  While this may ruffle the feathers of many Laker/Kobe fans, the most logical conclusion is that Kobe Bryant has simply gotten lucky.  In only three out of his thirteen years in the NBA has Kobe Bryant not had a teammate with an elite PER.  One of his most famous teammates, Shaquille O’Neal, has the 2nd highest career PER in NBA history, only behind Michael Jordan.  And his new teammate, Pau Gasol, is ranked 28th overall in NBA history with a career PER of 21.77, just behind all-time greats Dr. J and Moses Malone.  In those three seasons in which he didn’t have a teammate with an elite PER, Kobe posted a record of 121-125, a win percentage of .491. It seems that, if he doesn’t have another player with a high PER on his team, Kobe just doesn’t have what it takes to get to a championship.

Kobe Bryant’s ability to do the unimaginable leaves us star-struck.  Eighty-one points in a single game, 62 points against the Dallas Mavericks through 3 quarters,  61 points at Madison Square Garden breaking Michael Jordan’s previous record, 35.4 points per game scoring average in the 2005-2006 season… the list goes on and on.  When Kobe delivers a fadeaway jumper over three defenders, it’s all you can do to keep from drooling on the person’s head in front of you while your mouth hangs open in sheer awe.  But it’s exactly these types of feats which cloud our judgment when trying to view Kobe objectively as a player throughout the course of his career. And it’s these emotions that lead many to declare that Kobe’s the best. However, here is a list, just of current NBA players, who have a higher career PER than Kobe:

While Kobe Bryant is undoubtedly one of the greatest players who will ever play the game of basketball, raw numbers will never lie, and they indicate that he may not be as PERfect as everyone thinks.



33 Comments

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Jordan Fleuriet
Jun 10, 2009 6:14

Kobe, kobe, kobe. Overrated fo sho.

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jeff
Jun 10, 2009 6:21

lolz i can’t believe how solid this article is.

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Anonymous Kobe LOVER
Jun 10, 2009 6:23

This REALLY hurts to read after a night like tonight. When the first half ended i purposefully didn’t say anything, thinking this could be the one night KOBE cements his place in Finals history, and then he came out and had the most horrific second half of basketball I have ever seen him play and perhaps single-handedly cost the Lakers the game.

I am saddened. At the the end of the day though PER is meaningless, as it is all about championships. We play for championships not numbers on pages. Jordon prolly gives less of a fuck about his PER.

Kobe will achieve 4, perhaps more. Hate on him tonight, fine, but live to see what he does tomorrow!

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kobe
Jun 10, 2009 7:01

Man Lebron is bigger and faster, but dude can’t win. If he’s so good, then why am I about to get my 4th ring. Dude has big Z and company. Straight dirty.

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Kwame
Jun 10, 2009 7:16

Kobe gets his vitamins. Rashard lewis doesn’t. Lamar eats candy. Baron Davis doesn’t. Therefore, the lakers are better than the magic.

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will
Jun 10, 2009 7:17

Kobe isn’t as good as everybody thinks he is. The article is right. He’s had shaq and gasol. I believe he missed the playoffs one year when all he had was odom. He’s definitely one fo the best, but shouldn’t be considerd as a top 5 player in league history as many laker fans would believe.

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duder maggee
Jun 10, 2009 17:59

Kobe is insane, and many of his contributions don’t show up in the stats.
That being said, I believe Lebron is better, and is a better teammate (sure, Kobe has put up 8 assists in the finals so far. That’s an exception, not the rule for him). Brandon Roy will be a stud as well.
Kobe has the ritz and glamor of LA; Roy, Durant, etc do not. That makes a huge difference

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conrad
Jun 10, 2009 19:01

Hey Daniel,

I’ve noticed that everytime Kobe has been in the finals recently, he’s shooting these low percentages and also turning the ball over a lot more than he does the other playoff games. What is it with him in the finals? Does he have this superiority complex where he feels like he has to do too much?

I always thought he was not as efficient as advertised, now someone that has evidence!! Great job.

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Captain Badass
Jun 10, 2009 19:35

Good article Dan. If only this were on ESPN it could help stop the Kobe fawning which has reached a crescendo during the Finals…

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nba101
Jun 12, 2009 5:38

“shouldn’t be considerd as a top 5 player in league history.” Really? I’m guessing you want “King” LBJ in there.

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LoJiQ
Jun 12, 2009 6:17

Cough**HATERZ*COugh**

u can judge a person’s bitterness by the amount of hate that he bears. u guys r EFFIN losers! LOL

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The Warlock
Jun 12, 2009 6:54

Writing this copy cat shyt taken from John Dillinger_Kobe Enemy #1 aka Poindexter only shows how really ignorant and desperate “Felix the Cat” types of people, milking their goaded passion, who’s hate of Kobe is so obsessed, that in reality, are detoured guinea pigs and don’t understand shyt about anything they’re writing!

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Leroy Jenkins
Jun 12, 2009 6:58

Just checked this article out and thought it was great! Kobe is a solid player but PER shows that he isn’t the best in the league! I knew lebron is the best but I guess this just shows it.

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KEVIN 0
Jun 12, 2009 8:29

hahahahahahah
OK TRADE KOBE FOR NOWITZKI!
john hollinger is an idiot he predicted the magic losin to the cavs
the heat beatin the hawks the blazers over rockets
the bulls over celtics
are you shittin me?
so how many of you guys wouldany of those players for kobe
kevin garnett cant even make the playoffs alone he needs
2 superstars! to make it
nowitzki is joke that guy wouldnt win a championship with the dream team
duncan (he’s good so i wont say anyhin about him)
lebron james NEVER had a team worse than kobe had
that guy is pretty good but he’s not as close as kobe or jordad
shaq got humiliated by hakeem AND he had penny also the one
who really did win that championship was D-wade
wade is better than lebron james and doesnt look like a monkey like lebron does
wade is not coky like the self proclaimed queen james
chris paul has david west, and a pretty good team
and got raped by melo and co. 58 points?

so think about it, im not a kobe fan, but he’s clearlyy the best
jordan is better than kobe thats not arguable, but jordan had a great team
pippen, rodman, horace grant, harper, kukoc and many more
they are clearly a better team than the lakers rite now, keepin kobe and jordan out
of the picture
so why people hate kobe so much?
well he plays the best basketball in this planet
he doesnt look like a monkey like most of actual basketball players do
he doesnt act or look guetto like lebron.
and nothin brings him down like that embarrasin loss last year vs celtics

thats why i think john holliinger the stupidest sport analyzer in history of sports..

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celticfan1
Jun 12, 2009 8:46

Wow i hate to say it but kevin 0 is friggin right!
give him a job in espn for crissake

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truth
Jun 12, 2009 12:20

Show me any other championship team who didnt have two elite players on it.
Nobody is saying Kobe could do it on his own. NOBODY can do it on their own.
Articles and comments like these only cement you are what you are…HATERS.

Go away.

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Tbonez
Jun 12, 2009 15:37

Wow laker’s fans are emotional! I like seeing that! I guess they think numbers are wrong! Ohh well looks like Kobe is better than lebron because you feel like he is!!!

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LakerHater - NOT!
Jun 12, 2009 15:49

I don’t think Kobe is better than LeBron – I think that they’re two different players with different talents. They’re great players in their own right! If you have to make me pick – of course I’ll pick Kobe. Because I watch him play every season – and I’ve seen what he can do – unstoppable, for sure.

Now to all LAKER HATERS – here is some stats for ya;

The NBA is on it’s 64th year – the Lakers have been playing the finals for 30 of those years.
The lakers also have 15 champs under their belt. That means- the Lakers win 23.44 percent of the time.

And why do you hate on the champs? BECAUSE YOUR TEAM CAN’T WIN. That’s why.

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numb3rGuy
Jun 12, 2009 15:56

truth, Lebron doesn’t have a teammate with a high PER but he has made it to the finals and had the best record in the NBA. The article simply says that kobe was under 500 without an elite player. think of those 3 years where he didn’t have a great player as bad luck and the 10 where he did have an amazing player as great luck. KG has terrible luck for his whole career. Imagine if kobe had no good player for 11 years and a good one for 2(just like KG’s situation). He would probably be viewed a little differently. I actually think the article give kobe a lot of props, but says that NUMBERS indicate he isn’t the best player in the league, they indicate lebron is.

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purplegoldvein
Jun 12, 2009 19:04

this guy did not just re write an article that john hollinger has written like 5 times this year did he? look im a laker fan, and most of you are not. i recognize greatness and am unbiased about it, kobe is the most polarizing athlete in sports. love him or hate him whatever, but please PER is a good little stat. but like president Obama once said “their are lies, their are damn lies, then theres statistics”. numbers dont lie, but they dont tell the whole story. I guess Kobe terrorizing all your favorite teams for the last 13 years will make people bitter though, and look for any reason to say hes not as good as he is. This PER might make you feel a little better kobe haters, but it doesnt take away the fact hes about to get his 4th ring and is in good shape to win a couple more! maybe next year Laker haters.

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Phil
Jun 12, 2009 20:43

You laker guys use your “gut” a lot! I love it!

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Nate
Jun 12, 2009 23:42

Most polarizing? Not even. Michael Phelps? Maybe. Tiger? Maybe. Federer? No he’s got Nadal close. Kobe, he’s got LeBron and Dwayne right about him.
Kobe, great. Douche, but great. Maybe the greatest now. But Top 5 ever? No. Although stats never lie, they can’t be trusted for everything, such as sheer talent. This article spins the truth from a perspective, stats. So, although true, it doesn’t speak to complete truth as it is only looking at one aspect. Kobe is great and demands more attention from defenders, etc… so stats can only go so far. But, allow me to repeat, not Kobe is not Top 5 material. Top 5 current? Of course. Top 5 of the past decade? Probably. Top 5 of all-time? Slim to none.
I am not as cocky as Kobe and will never claim to be so I won’t front as much arrogance as to say I have the true Top 5 list of all time in professional basketball. That being said, I think it’s a safe bet to say Michael Jordan is a definite candidate for greatest ever, and if not, a sure Top 5. More candidates would include but not be limited to the likes of Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Pistol Pete, Wilt Chamberlain, that’s 4 more right there, just off the top of my head. A hundred more guys could be brought up, all with attributes and skills eclipsing those of the man mentioned before, but all with weaknesses and faults in their own right.
Bottom line, no line of statistics can have the final say in greatness, it can only contribute to the argument. And no opinion of the greatest can ever be proven, only supported. Greatest ever is an opinion, and in my opinion, Kobe is great, but not the greatest.

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purplegoldvein
Jun 13, 2009 2:28

kobe is great, and your greatest of all time top 5 argument lost all validity when you put pistol pete in front of kobe. you probably never even saw him play, get out of here with that. if you put larry legend instead i would have a harder time tearing down your point but you made it pretty easy.

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The Warlock
Jun 13, 2009 10:37

This fairy tale PER is pure hogwash, manipulating naive & foolish minds; This Poindexter has all you Felix’s eating his cat food: Account for that, adjusted here, subtract there, per minute debates, adjusted pace! …Anybody who acknowledges this crap as a barometer to NBA greatness is truly stupefied!

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MCDRLx
Jun 24, 2009 13:41

LOL at this article and the haters. PER is the end-all of ranking the greatness of players – but only according to John Hollinger, whose statistical expertise I admire but procedures I consider remarkably flawed. If the NBA became a game where statistics ruled all, that’ll be the death of the league, my friends.

Take Holliger’s Top 10 NBA Finals performances rankings. I won’t rail about Dwyane Wade’s No. 1 position because, amazing as his top-ranked 33.8 PER is, his performance in the 2006 NBA Finals was undoubtedly one for the ages. In fact, aside from Wade, only THREE other players make up the list – Jordan 4 times, Shaq 3 times, Duncan 2 times.

So does this mean all of you alleged PER adherents suddenly point to the all-encompassing nature of the PER stat and revise your opinions of Finals performances? Does this mean you discount Magic Johnson’s legendary 1980 and 1988 performances? Chauncey Billups’ 2004 performance is at 16, which suggests that it was better than Kareem’s barnstorming 1980 Finals and Bird’s near triple-double marvel in ‘86. LOL.

Yes, PER is a good stat. A great one, even, ambitiously created to methodically rank a player’s individual merits. No, it isn’t the end-all of all rankings; and no, just because Kobe Bryant’s PER has been historically unimpressive (for his standards) doesn’t take away from the fact that he is INDEED the best player in the NBA right now, especially when judged by a combination of criteria that define prominent athletes: talent, work ethic, accolades, championships, records, longevity, and memorable moments.

‘Kobe got lucky.’ LOL. Those three words stridently scream “hater.” If a 21-year old Kobe didn’t go off for 8 points late in the game and overtime vs. Indiana in the ‘00 NBA Finals, carrying the team after O’Neal fouled out, could there ever have been a three peat? Could O’Neal have gotten his Finals MVPs? What about the iconic Game 7 of the West finals vs. Portland in that same season, when Kobe put up 25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists, and 4 blocks and assisted on the most memorable play of the series – one of the great moments in franchise history?

If you’re going to stick by numbers, realize that Kobe just became the first player since Jerry West (’69) to average over 32 points and 7 assists in an NBA Finals series. Realize that he captained the USA Redeem Team to Olympic Gold, steered many of the league’s brightest stars (James, Wade, Paul, Howard) to improve their game after growing under his leadership. (Confirmed by all four on different occasions.) Realize that we in the league have just witnessed one of the most remarkable 2-year stretches in league history by any player – 164 regular season games, 45 playoff games, Olympic Gold, 2 All-NBA First Teams, 2 All-Defensive First Teams, 2 All-Star selections, All-Star MVP, NBA MVP, NBA Finals MVP, a 65-17 season and a fourth championship without a single Hall of Fame-lock player playing alongside him.

I apologize for the length. But bottom line is, if THAT doesn’t solidify his legacy as the best in the game today (and an argument-free berth in the all-time Top 10), then one thing is becoming quickly evident with respect to all of the vitriolic naysayers: you, good sirs, are simply HATERS.

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Paul Smiles
Jun 24, 2009 18:32

PER says that those chaps had the best stats in the finals. Is it a better story when lesser players keep their team in the game? Most of the time yes because people enjoy watching the underdog try their best…ever seen Rudy? People remember him more than the better players on his team. Doesn’t mean he had better stats.

Lebron averaged 38 8 and 8 against the same team just one series earlier. The article never said kobe isn’t great. Just not the best at getting stats. Kobe’s ‘09 playoff PER was 26.86, Lebron’s was a almost stupid, 37.43.

Kobe has a great story right now as you said and is a top 10 player in the league in PER. He’s just not the best in the league at PER like Jordan, Shaq, and Lebron were.

MCDRLx: LOL at this article and the haters. PER is the end-all of ranking the greatness of players – but only according to John Hollinger, whose statistical expertise I admire but procedures I consider remarkably flawed. If the NBA became a game where statistics ruled all, that’ll be the death of the league, my friends.
Take Holliger’s Top 10 NBA Finals performances rankings. I won’t rail about Dwyane Wade’s No. 1 position because, amazing as his top-ranked 33.8 PER is, his performance in the 2006 NBA Finals was undoubtedly one for the ages. In fact, aside from Wade, only THREE other players make up the list – Jordan 4 times, Shaq 3 times, Duncan 2 times.So does this mean all of you alleged PER adherents suddenly point to the all-encompassing nature of the PER stat and revise your opinions of Finals performances? Does this mean you discount Magic Johnson’s legendary 1980 and 1988 performances? Chauncey Billups’ 2004 performance is at 16, which suggests that it was better than Kareem’s barnstorming 1980 Finals and Bird’s near triple-double marvel in ‘86. LOL.Yes, PER is a good stat. A great one, even, ambitiously created to methodically rank a player’s individual merits. No, it isn’t the end-all of all rankings; and no, just because Kobe Bryant’s PER has been historically unimpressive (for his standards) doesn’t take away from the fact that he is INDEED the best player in the NBA right now, especially when judged by a combination of criteria that define prominent athletes: talent, work ethic, accolades, championships, records, longevity, and memorable moments.‘Kobe got lucky.’ LOL. Those three words stridently scream “hater.” If a 21-year old Kobe didn’t go off for 8 points late in the game and overtime vs. Indiana in the ‘00 NBA Finals, carrying the team after O’Neal fouled out, could there ever have been a three peat? Could O’Neal have gotten his Finals MVPs? What about the iconic Game 7 of the West finals vs. Portland in that same season, when Kobe put up 25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists, and 4 blocks and assisted on the most memorable play of the series – one of the great moments in franchise history?If you’re going to stick by numbers, realize that Kobe just became the first player since Jerry West (’69) to average over 32 points and 7 assists in an NBA Finals series. Realize that he captained the USA Redeem Team to Olympic Gold, steered many of the league’s brightest stars (James, Wade, Paul, Howard) to improve their game after growing under his leadership. (Confirmed by all four on different occasions.) Realize that we in the league have just witnessed one of the most remarkable 2-year stretches in league history by any player – 164 regular season games, 45 playoff games, Olympic Gold, 2 All-NBA First Teams, 2 All-Defensive First Teams, 2 All-Star selections, All-Star MVP, NBA MVP, NBA Finals MVP, a 65-17 season and a fourth championship without a single Hall of Fame-lock player playing alongside him.I apologize for the length. But bottom line is, if THAT doesn’t solidify his legacy as the best in the game today (and an argument-free berth in the all-time Top 10), then one thing is becoming quickly evident with respect to all of the vitriolic naysayers: you, good sirs, are simply HATERS.

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Charles Roberts
Jun 24, 2009 20:49

MCDRLx doesn’t understand the point of the article. He loves thinking with his emotions. Of course everyone loves to see some role player like Derek Fisher hit a game winning shot. Or Kobe play great against Indiana in the finals. But the point of the article is to look at the game from a statistical point of view. So please buddy, who probably has no logic, tell me that Kobe is more efficient than Lebron or Jordan or Shaq while he is on the court. It is already established that some player’s have remarkable feats, but PER measures someone’s efficiency on the court. As great as Bird was, do you really think that any performance he’s ever had rivals Lebron’s performance during the finals?

I am a die hard Laker fan. (Used to work as an intern in basketball ops) But even through the numbers I see that no argument can be made that Kobe is in the company of Jordan, Shaq, or Lebron. For god’s sake, HE WAS NEVER EVEN THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS OWN TEAM TILL THIS YEAR!! You must not understand that point. While his performance in the finals against Indy was great, you must not think that Kobe is “lucky” to be in the spot where he played with the one of the most dominating big men of all time. So in essence my friend, he was lucky to be in that spot.

Also your mind is simply a pawn to state that Kobe and Jerry West were the only players in finals history to score 32 points and 7 assists a game. That’s like saying that, Jordan was the only person to average 35 points and 4 steals a game. You’re picking 2 stat categories and creating an achievement. I find that hilarious, why dont you just look at the entire body of work. You must think that just because Kobe’s team won against Orlando, Kobe had a better series than Lebron against the same team. The entire point of the article is isolating individual players. From that standpoint, there is no way in hell you can argue that Kobe had a better series. Your tiny mind can lead you to think with your heart, not with raw numbers.

You can name all the accolades in the world. All NBA this, All Defensive team that. Those are awards that are completely based on politics. Are you seriously telling me that Kobe Bryant is a better defender than Shane Battier? You’ll tell me, “yeah he is when he wants to be.” Those awards are laughable and have no credibility, especially when they stopped giving MVP to the best player in the league just to “mix it up.” (Jordan)

Let your Kobe love completely blind you. Best closer in the game, best player in the game, yada yada yada.

PS: Kindly explain this to me.

Kobe’s reputation as a “killer” at the end of games remains overblown. The site http://www.82games.com just posted a study of game-winning shots from the last five-plus seasons (regular seasons and playoffs since the 2003-04 season) that revealed Kobe was shooting 14-for-56 (25 percent) with one assist and five turnovers, and made 12 of 15 free throws. So let’s say that was 70 possessions total, including Sunday night. … He only had one assist in nearly six years??? That’s why Orlando quadruple-teamed him in that spot. Kobe is a phenomenal streak shooter, and he has a real talent for catching fire with a lead and closing games out … but you can stop him in one-shot situations simply because he’s his own worst enemy. He wants to be a hero, he’s shooting it, and that’s that.

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MCDRLx
Jun 25, 2009 0:34

I admit that I waxed a bit emotional writing that discourse, so sorry if y’all took it the wrong way. I’m usually vexed by Kobe haters to the point of no return, and coming off a bad day at work pushed me off the edge a little bit. My apologies.

You’re essentially right in pointing out that this article focuses solely on numbers and their ability to determine how good a player is. All I wanted to emphasize is that the numbers don’t speak for everything, and shouldn’t. For example, I consider Bill Walton to be in the group of elite centers because of what he accomplished in his two fully healthy seasons with Portland, but I do realize that’s an unpopular position to take, especially in light of PER.

I won’t tell you that Kobe is more efficient that Jordan, Shaq or LeBron on the court, because he simply isn’t. I don’t think I even implied that in my previous post. And I don’t think I ever mentioned that I thought Kobe played better than LeBron vs. Orlando, aside from you implying it (in fact, if you want me to state it now, I was blown away by LeBron’s numbers in that series and elsewhere). He’s posting the best individual statistics since Jordan and Robertson at a younger age and with lesser teammates – my hat’s off to that. Statistically, he’s been the best player in the league since perhaps ‘06-07.

But I mean, statistics lay the foundation for sports, but shouldn’t the intangibles (feats, accomplishments etc.) play an important part too? I’m always going to be a part of that second camp, even though I know many people would vehemently ridicule me. I think it’s impossible to arrive at a consensus.

And if you accuse me of being emotional (read: treating subjects like these from the heart), that I definitely am, and it’s something about myself that I’m not going to change and it doesn’t take anything away from my logic, which you say I have none of…not exactly a nice accusation. I’m a film critic for the student newspaper and favor arthouse films over commercial entertainment, so maybe that contributes to my way of thinking. As someone who watched Kobe and the Lakers play for years through all the high and low moments of their careers and my own life, I’ve just gotten little tired of Kobe-bashing, but if you go by the numbers alone I won’t try to prove you wrong.

Well-written article.

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rah
Jul 1, 2009 8:15

At some point do you stat geeks watch the games or just collect data because I collect data and when he has anybody worth there weight it is CHAMPIONSHIP he has been to 6 in 13 years where is that STAT! In addition what is his playoff PER compared to those dudes it has to be Higher and if it isnt than the CATERGORY is in itself BS bc at no point do these STATS seem to reflect W-L. Really as an example New Orleans and CP3 it is obvious CP3 didnt play as good as he did last season or his team didnt which is his job as the PG they went from #2 in West to #7 and maybe the worst team in the Playoffs. Is it CP3 fault or not but I know what Kobe takes the blame for everything the Lakers have done or not done for every year he been in the league from airballs as a rookie to hitting every bucket to win down the strecth. All these other clowns NEVER EVER taking on that MONKEY and that includes that Gorilla Shaq who ask to be traded whenever his feelings hurt or he has to do real work to WIN ie play all 82 games at a high level on both ends and be in shape. So, Bron has Shaq now and Wade did too so really Kobe is still better bc he won with SHAQ 3 straight not 1 as Wade and Bron will still be 1 solo behind even if he wins 3 straight with Shaq which will not happen. Shaq just had Nash and Amarie and what was his PER that resulted in no PLAYOFFS that says about all it needs to say about that PER rating until it actually combines W-L it is FLUKE as all STATS and I am an ECONOMIST. I can make a spreadsheet say whatever I want or at work whatever my boss wants PERIOD. SO add win-loses and guess what KOBE on top bc he has been to 6 SHIPS!!!!!!!!

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Jay Z
Jul 3, 2009 13:19

rah are you crazy? If you are an Economist then I’m Warren Buffet. He has been to “6 ships”? This last season was the first time he won one as the best player on his team at PER. Of course he still has Pau Gasol, who has a top 20 PER in league history.

So your big category is wins? In the article it says then when he doesn’t have a top 20 player in league history on his team, the guy is under 500. Meaning that he doesn’t win unless he has great people on his team, and he’s been in a situation where he’s had good players on his team. It’s a simple concept.

rah: At some point do you stat geeks watch the games or just collect data because I collect data and when he has anybody worth there weight it is CHAMPIONSHIP he has been to 6 in 13 years where is that STAT! In addition what is his playoff PER compared to those dudes it has to be Higher and if it isnt than the CATERGORY is in itself BS bc at no point do these STATS seem to reflect W-L. Really as an example New Orleans and CP3 it is obvious CP3 didnt play as good as he did last season or his team didnt which is his job as the PG they went from #2 in West to #7 and maybe the worst team in the Playoffs. Is it CP3 fault or not but I know what Kobe takes the blame for everything the Lakers have done or not done for every year he been in the league from airballs as a rookie to hitting every bucket to win down the strecth. All these other clowns NEVER EVER taking on that MONKEY and that includes that Gorilla Shaq who ask to be traded whenever his feelings hurt or he has to do real work to WIN ie play all 82 games at a high level on both ends and be in shape. So, Bron has Shaq now and Wade did too so really Kobe is still better bc he won with SHAQ 3 straight not 1 as Wade and Bron will still be 1 solo behind even if he wins 3 straight with Shaq which will not happen. Shaq just had Nash and Amarie and what was his PER that resulted in no PLAYOFFS that says about all it needs to say about that PER rating until it actually combines W-L it is FLUKE as all STATS and I am an ECONOMIST. I can make a spreadsheet say whatever I want or at work whatever my boss wants PERIOD. SO add win-loses and guess what KOBE on top bc he has been to 6 SHIPS!!!!!!!!

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PERsucks
Jul 22, 2009 20:25

wow… this guy never played basketball.. a white fat *** man who loves to hate kobe. what is jordan’s PER?? hmmm.

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